Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Some people out there on the Internet right now, they're complaining that they don't have the fortitude for politics.
[00:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:10] Speaker A: That they. They don't have the strength for politics.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: So weak. They think they're weak.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Well, let me tell you something.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Today is the day that we reveal.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: We reveal that you don't need strength for politics.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: You don't need strength.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: You don't need sanity.
Where we're going, there's only chaos.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: Oh, we are going to vote.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: We don't care if the votes count.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: I actually voting into the void. I actually want the votes to count.
No.
Okay.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: It is presumptuous of you.
It is presumptuous of you to think that your votes should count. They are going into the void. And that is okay.
Yeah, that is okay. Because we've got to vote.
We've got to fucking vote. It's the most important election of our lives. This election, which will be, I do truly believe, the most important election of our lifetime.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: This is the most important election of our lifetime.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: This is the most important election.
You hear that?
[00:01:27] Speaker C: This is the most important election in our lifetime. I certainly think it's the most important
[00:01:31] Speaker A: election of my lifetime.
[00:01:33] Speaker C: This is the most important election of our times.
Politicians say every time, this is the most important election.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: This one's really that important. Yay.
It's the most important election of our lives. Once again.
Holy shit, it's happening again. You've got to get in the voting booth.
If you're not in line, get in the line. If you are in a line, get out of that line. Get in a different line.
And if you're a guest on this show, your name is Ian Bordreau.
[00:02:03] Speaker B: Hello.
[00:02:04] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:02:05] Speaker C: How's everybody?
[00:02:07] Speaker A: You know, look, listen, listen.
[00:02:10] Speaker B: I am the podcast statistician Andrew Fields, and all I have to say is when you vote into the abyss, the abyss votes back into you.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: I believe in white culture we say living the dream.
[00:02:23] Speaker B: Living the dream.
[00:02:25] Speaker C: It is what it is.
The vibes have never been worse.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: But also somehow we are so back.
[00:02:37] Speaker C: We are so back.
[00:02:39] Speaker B: Voters at home, these episodes take a little while to come out. We just have had little guy called Donald Trump attack do an invasion and we and the Democrats are like, hey, you should have asked us first. We would have suggested.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: But yeah, you should have asked us first.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Ian Boudreau. Well, actually, hold on, I should say first. I'm Kennedy Cooper, as always. We've got Andrew Fields here, our in house statistician.
[00:03:09] Speaker B: Yes, yes, hello, Yes. I repeat what I said when you vote into the abyss, the abyss votes back into you.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: We've got Ian Boudreau today. A, a, a wonderful guest, actually. A, a sort of.
A sort of.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: As opposed to our normal guests which suck. Just kidding.
[00:03:27] Speaker A: Most of our guests suck. No, I'm just kidding.
But.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: Well, don't worry, I do too. It's. That's fine.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: A, a a sort of expert in games and games culture. Is that, is that, is that a good way to style you? A sometimes journalist, sometimes panelists, sometimes.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: That's probably better than Internet person experts. A strong word.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've worked in games and games media for the past, God, 11 or so years. I guess. So.
[00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And I wouldn't say expert, I would say Twitter spurt because I don't call it X.
[00:04:10] Speaker C: Oh, that's right, yeah. X is with a spur.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Okay, I'm never going to say that again.
[00:04:18] Speaker A: That's a really bad.
[00:04:20] Speaker C: I tried to, I tried to tap that one over but I ran into that.
[00:04:25] Speaker B: Sorry. I'm so sorry you've locked yourself into an hour of this, Ian.
Just know that our editor is going to use all sorts of sound effects to make me to correctly punish me.
[00:04:37] Speaker C: Oh, great. We have the slide whistle and the price is cricket.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: Cricket.
[00:04:42] Speaker C: Bummer sound.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Cricket sounds.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: It's great to have you here.
I like to give people a quick chance to do any shout outs or plugs at the start of the show and then a longer plug at the end. So is there anything you have going on you want people to know about?
[00:04:57] Speaker C: You know what? No, there's not. I am here for the love of the game only.
I'm not plugging anything.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: You at least have a Blue sky account.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: Oh yeah, I do have Blue sky account if you want to follow me there. I don't recommend it but It's@ian boudreau.com.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: i do recommend it. I don't know what he's talking about, but I don't recommend it.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: But remember, you want to do the opposite of what I. You do want to do the opposite of what it says and I don't recommend it.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: It's some river. Yeah, really, I mean, I've explained this on Blue Sky Cup. Okay.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: I do recommend Andrew does not. So that should tell you what you need to do.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: What it is, is like and I've tried to explain this a couple times because people get confused about like what social for and it's really just a place for me to put intrusive thoughts and deal with them so I can like Go on with my day and, like, accomplish things.
It's not like there's no other goal, you know, like, there's not. It's not like a branding exercise or like a source of information. It really just is me regulating my, you know, intrusive thoughts and anxiety.
So, yeah, if you want in on that, that's fine.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: No, no, I. I'm on your Blue sky page in your latest post on Blue Skies, responding to a store called Pump and Munch, and your response is, give her the all. So, yeah, that. This is just.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: That's incredible stuff.
I. I sort of. I think. I think if. If somebody. If people follow me and a shocking number of people do for some reason, um, they'll probably be all right with that kind of style, because that's all they're getting from me. Every now and again, I'll try to, like, kind of flex on someone in real life. Like, hey, I've got a social media. I don't do this very often, but sometimes I want, like, something for free.
And you want, like, hey, I've got a social media following. And they'll be like, oh, yeah, let me see it. And they'll still see the big number top, though. Ooh. And then they look at the post, they go, what the.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: How did this happen? Yeah, this is a. For me, it's just. It's a shameful secret that I will be mortified if I find out anybody that I know in real life finds out about.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: So you said that you were here for the love of the game. And I want to be clear to the listeners at home, you're not here for the love of just any game.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Not any game.
[00:07:18] Speaker A: You're here for the love of a very Sonic the Hedgehog.
[00:07:23] Speaker C: Well, Knuckles. Sonic and Knuckles,
[00:07:28] Speaker A: you're here for. You're here for the love of a very specific British miniature war game. Am I right?
[00:07:34] Speaker C: That is correct.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Sonic the Hedgehog.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: Sonic the Hedgehog.
What if Sonic the Hedgehog was known for a tabletop war game?
[00:07:45] Speaker C: Well, you know what? Sonic the Hedgehog, honestly, should probably be a British character. I feel like there's way more hedgehogs in England than there are. I've never seen one.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Something about him having blue fur, I don't know. That feels British to me. I can't explain that. But.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: No, it feels right, though.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: It does.
Oh, you have a license to go fast. Okay, let's continue. Let's get back on track.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: Wait. What if Sonic was known for a popular tabletop war game?
[00:08:15] Speaker C: What if he was? What.
[00:08:17] Speaker A: What would that what would that game be like?
[00:08:19] Speaker C: You just. You throw the miniature as hard as you can.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: Gotta go fast.
[00:08:26] Speaker A: I'll tell you what.
One thing I know for sure, it'd be the opposite of Warhammer 40K.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: It probably would be what we're talking about today. By the way.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: I kind of buried the lead, but yeah, Warhammer 40K.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: Okay. I just want to start off with a fun numbers fact. The reason why they call it Warhammer 40k is because there's 40k reasons. It sucks.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:08:55] Speaker C: Probably true.
Yes, it's. And I. You know what? To get right in front of this, like, I do love Warhammer 40K.
I would say that I'm an aspiring Warhammer 40K player. I have an army that I'm. Paint like one of these little miniatures that you. You pay way too much money for and then paint.
That's still in the works. So. So. And painting.
[00:09:19] Speaker A: Painting is more of the game than playing the game.
[00:09:22] Speaker C: I think it is the other part of it that's really big, and this is the part that I've like spent way more time with is the vibes.
You know, it's a game for people who are really good with names and stats. The kind of mind that like internalizes, you know, probability and ranges and, you know, weapon loadouts and these, you know, lore and things like that. I don't have that kind of brain.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Don't you dare get me into Warhammer 40K.
[00:09:49] Speaker C: But. So I don't have that kind of mind at all. But I have like, my. There's tons of video games about it that I've loved. And I have fallen asleep listening to the Horus Heresy audiobooks for the past several months. So that's kind of where I am.
That's the kind of 40k fan that I am. So just to get that out in
[00:10:11] Speaker A: front, I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to interact with 40K. I mean, the miniatures game takes several years to complete a match of. So you've gotta. You've gotta prep for it.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: A thousand dollars? Maybe. I don't know. They're. Stuff's expensive.
[00:10:28] Speaker A: That's cheap. What are you talking? A thousand? You got your army for a thousand bucks? Holy. Where'd you get that deal?
[00:10:34] Speaker B: Well, at the Dollar army store.
Well, actually, they charge A dollar and 25 cents now.
[00:10:43] Speaker C: Inflation. It sucks.
[00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: I don't own a 3D printer. What are you talking about? Let's move on. Anyway, yeah, Warhammer 40K, very fascinating. Massive universe, definitely. If you want to get into some kind of gaming world with just a more or less endless amount of lore.
This is
[00:11:11] Speaker C: really is. And it's so participatory too, like over. I think it's been around for about 40 years now. And the amount of the, like there's, there's official Games Workshop lore that they've created and you know, a whole series of novels and the, you know, black library books that go along with the, the universe. But I feel like players have been like, if you go to any Warhammer Wiki site, the, any page that you pick is. It's pages and pages and pages of, of the back history.
The characters that are, you know, involved thousands of years. And it is, it's 40,000. Because it's 40,000 years. That's how, that's the year that this
[00:11:56] Speaker B: kicks off is the Warhammer Wiki. It doesn't matter which page. It doesn't.
[00:12:02] Speaker C: You can just look at any of it and there's way too much information on any individual subject. It's, it's, it's.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Oh, do not get me into that. Do not get me into Warhammer.
[00:12:12] Speaker C: It was kind of like really piqued your interest based on how we've described this so far.
[00:12:17] Speaker B: So my understanding of Warhammer is it's one of those franchises you have a lot of, you have a lot of well intended people, but you also have people that don't get that they, they fall in love with the bad guys and thinks that it's praising them. So some of the fans are just.
You have a lot of good fans and I want to stress that. But also it does have a reputation for some fans.
[00:12:41] Speaker A: So Andrew's been scared of Warhammer is what he's saying.
And I don't think that that's entirely.
[00:12:47] Speaker C: I don't think that's unreasonable at all.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: I had to pass as the Warhammer expert for this podcast. I have played a game of 40k.
I've actually played like three.
I was pretty young when all this happened. Could have been two or four.
But I want to say three games of 40k, take the average.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: And three times 40k is 120k. So that's plenty of experience.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: It's tons of experience, really. Think about it.
And I've played some of the video games and I've interacted with the lore just a tiny bit. And so I kind of came into writing this episode. I was like, well, I guess I'm kind of like the 40k episode or expert for this episode from the writing side. And what I discovered was that one I Couldn't figure out how to explain any of this shit. And two, because it's just so dense and weird. And two, I don't know anything about. I thought I knew stuff about 40k, but the more I talked about it and read about it in preparation for this episode, I feel now the most lost I've ever felt in this. In this universe.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: So much.
And I mean, and to add to that, like, you know, there's Warhammer 40K and now a huge focus. Or I mean, for the. I say now. I mean, I. I think the past 15 years or more, there's been the Horus heresy, which runs it back 10,000 years to like 30K. And you, you kind of get this whole backstory of how the Imperium split between the loyalist forces to the Emperor and the Chaos Force, like the, the traitor legions that are now aligned with different Chaos gods and things. And so that's. I don't know, that's like 20 or 30 novels or something like that. There's. There's tons. And a whole. It's got its own miniatures line. And then of course, all of the fluff, all of the, the lore that people have created around it, it's amazing.
[00:14:43] Speaker B: It, it doesn't help that I already have an established reputation for accepting very long franchises.
Well, there's the joke about how
[00:14:57] Speaker A: he
[00:14:58] Speaker B: gets good at 1071. One piece. Gets good at one.
[00:15:01] Speaker C: I was just gonna ask about one piece.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah, this, this guy, if I recommend him like a 12 episode show, he's like, I don't know, I'll get to it.
I recommend him something that's 100 episodes long, he watches it. I don't understand what's wrong with his brain.
[00:15:18] Speaker B: Okay, let me explain.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Like 90% of the animes I've ever recommended to you, you haven't watched, but you watch JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Okay, to be fair, I do have another friend who has made suggestions to me and that partially contributes to it.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: I don't believe that you have.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, no. Okay. One, I do have friends. Two, I lied. I recommended JoJo's to them, so. So I'm a liar being Friendless creep.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: I knew it. I knew you were a lying, friendless creep.
[00:15:50] Speaker B: I am a lying, friendless creep. I put it on my business cards. Nobody gets back to me for some reason.
[00:16:02] Speaker A: Is there anything in particular that, like, was there like an inciting incident with you in 40k?
[00:16:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I was just thinking about that.
I had kind of run into some of the games, particularly dawn of War, which is Kind of a real time strategy game on PC that's set in. I think that was my first real experience with 40k, the, the sort of larger universe. And I was kind of fascinated by the idea of space Marines fighting orcs in space. I mean it just, it was absurd. But what I.
And it's. That was early mid 2000s, I guess.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But pretty solid RTS series. Not the best, but like.
[00:16:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I love them. It's by the folks that made Company of Heroes and yeah, it was. I, I found it just. It was a weird setting and it kind of had this like 2000 AD kind of vibe to it. Like the folks that do like Judge Dread and other weird sci fi comics, also very British.
But then I think for me that like I kind of got more serious about it. Started collecting an army and, and reading some of the books a few years ago in the lead up to a game, Warhammer 40K Darktide, which is kind of like a Left 4 Dead shooter. That's like a co op shooter. That's, that's based in this hive city where you go down and work together and try to. Well, you just kill a bunch of things. Because it's Warhammer 40K. That's basically what happens in any 40K game. Yeah, it's a video game.
[00:17:33] Speaker B: You kill people. No exceptions.
[00:17:35] Speaker C: So in the process of that. This is while I was games and, and I did an interview with Dan Abnett who had contributed some writing for that game, but he's also one of the authors for the Black Library novels.
And I hadn't read. I, I sort of knew his name. He's written stuff for dc, a bunch of other kind of famous properties. But I think his most beloved works have been set in the 40k universe. But talking with him was just a kind of eye opening experience. He's a really funny dude.
And I pulled up the article because he had a great take on it. And I think this kind of touches too on something you mentioned before Kennedy, that the fans can be scary. Like people who kind of get too excited about the bad guys and.
[00:18:20] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:20] Speaker C: Especially in the States. I think like at this moment in time something that comes off as like it's hard to read this as something that's not explicitly fascist which kind of.
But like it's important. And Abnet kind of talked about how this all comes out of this setting of 1980s thatchrite England. And here's the quote that he kind of gave one of the quotes anyway. He says, you know, in the grim darkness of the far future There Is only War is one of the most dramatic lines in any science fiction universe. It's also really funny because it's just so damn big. It's so grandiose and operatic. You could easily start giggling just because of how bleakly serious and horrific everything is. And it is.
There is this absurdity to everything that undercuts any kind of like. Like. And some British friends have kind of explained this too. It's kind of been in the water, you know, since they were kids. And this is never like. The idea that somebody could take this seriously is absurd to them because it is kind of that. Like. I mentioned Judge Dread earlier and it kind of has that same kind of bizarre.
It's like if the Muppets were doing something, you know, bleak and serious or something like that. There's just. It's ridiculous.
Everything about it is ridiculous. So
[00:19:41] Speaker B: airplane just hit the tower.
[00:19:44] Speaker C: Yeah, well, right. Yeah, that's the thing. We've kind of caught up, haven't we?
We're getting there. But that talk with. That talk with Dan Abnett really kind of opened my eyes to it a little bit more and I. I just started enjoying the, I guess, the world for what it is. Do you also, I mean, the novels, there's these, these hulking Astartes, which are these, you know, 12 foot mutant humans who are kind of, you know, like surgically and genetically altered to have three lungs and two hearts. And they're, you know.
And then the novels kind of come in and suggest that these guys have these rich internal lives, which is hilarious in its own way too.
[00:20:29] Speaker A: Well, I guess you would have a rich internal life if you had a bunch of extra organs.
[00:20:37] Speaker C: Yeah, you're absolutely right.
Also, they live for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years too, except if they get chewed in some kind of battle meat grinder, which happens to like
[00:20:50] Speaker A: 10,000 of them a second or whatever.
[00:20:53] Speaker C: Well, the emperor is like. The emperor is half. Mostly dead.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker C: He's bolted to a golden throne underneath the Himalayas.
He's kept alive by the sacrifice of a thousand psychers every day.
Like, this is. It's.
All of it is so insane that, you know, you can kind of see a Jim Henson treatment.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, it is pretty absurdist.
So, you know, I was thinking about political topics to pair up with Warhammer 40K and I. I started to think about, you know, conflicts that don't really go anywhere, that never end, that are somehow unspeakably grim, but also kind of ridiculous. And obviously I was thinking about the Cold War.
[00:21:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: Which is something that still. I mean, we kind of say that it ended, but it didn't end.
And there's definitely still major parts of that conflict that haven't.
[00:21:59] Speaker B: Listen, listen, here's my hot take. Global warming is fake. Because if global warming was real, why do we still have a Cold War? It should have melted.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: Take that, Libs.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: I. I do think it should have melted.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: It should have melted.
It should be the melting war now.
[00:22:16] Speaker C: The war would have been. It would have melted by.
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:22:23] Speaker C: yeah, but I mean, but that. That I think is that that really does feed into especially like the, you know, mid-1980s origin of. Of Warhammer and 40K. Right. Like the.
Everything that the Imperium of Man is, is just this war machine that's set up to, you know, ostensibly bring the light of humanity to the far reaches of the. Of the galaxy, but really it is just you're turning worlds into war factories that just kind of perpetuate war its own sake. That's all anything is in Warhammer kind of explicitly.
[00:23:06] Speaker A: That's like on page one to just pumping out millions of soldiers per year. That's all these planets.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: Yeah, that's all they do. Or you've taken over. Taken over a planet and it's now just a tank factory. That's the. The whole thing it does is it just makes Lehman Russ tanks.
So yeah, like just on its face like that, it is a reflection of that military industrial complex and the way that. That was just sort of grinding away for decades under the Cold War. Right, right. Under kind of like this vague threat of a alien enemy that might be out there. But it is and it's definitely going to escape reality.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Right?
[00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it. I think it is a really. There is a really strong parallel and definitely. I think it. There is definitely a particularly apt parallel that you're kind of touching on here in terms of how, you know, there. There is like this older kind of like imperialism and colonialism that went by the wayside. And then like they. They created this new version during the Cold War.
A lot of it had to do with just like who could get their military bases into other people's countries and stuff like that.
And then you do have this aspect of like some countries just kind of being used as like theaters for the. The great powers to resolve disputes. And it's like, you know, these are. These are people's real much like how it's sort of like horrifying and simultaneously kind of like just like ridiculous in its. In its wrongness to imagine a planet that's producing soldiers by the millions every year. And that's its only purpose.
It is also like, you know, that that is exactly the sorts of situations that the great empires were trying to create during the Cold War with varying degrees of success.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: And let me just make one thing perfectly clear. On the one hand, I want to be hopeful for our future and that's why. Why I get involved. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if 100 years from now, Donald Trump was still president and kept alive with this all with a thousand human sacrifices each day. That would not shock me.
[00:25:20] Speaker C: I feel like that's with it. Yeah, that's certainly. He would certainly hope that that works out. I'd say, like that would be a goal.
So if they were, I mean, I like I.
[00:25:30] Speaker B: To be clear, I've had a progressive politician on this podcast hope for the best, prepare for the worst
[00:25:37] Speaker C: version of him or something that, that they can vote for in perpetuity.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker C: Yeah.
What is the worst there? And I guess that's the, that's where
[00:25:50] Speaker B: things can't possibly get worse.
[00:25:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:54] Speaker C: And I guess that's the, that's the. The underlying gag of 40k is that they always can get worse. And here's what happens after thousands and thousands and thousands of years of that constantly happening.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So if, if the Cold War truly never comes to any kind of conclusion, I guess one day we'll, we'll have that. That sounds good. To folks that are invested in the current geopolitical.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: I don't like that. Can I decide.
[00:26:26] Speaker A: And. Yeah.
[00:26:27] Speaker B: Or have we banned the First Amendment?
[00:26:29] Speaker A: Another parallel that I liked is that, you know, if you look too closely at pretty much almost any major faction or even a lot of the minor factions in the Cold War, eventually after examining them for long enough, you'll grow to hate them. And that's exactly how I would describe every faction in Warhammer 40K. On first glance you're like, wow, look at all that leather and spikes or whatever. And then you read about them and you're like, oh my God.
[00:26:54] Speaker C: Yeah, everybody is absolutely heinous. And what's great too, I think there has been this split right between, you know, the, the.
I think a lot of fans have gotten kind of. Well, some old school fans anyway, have been frustrated by the kind of deprioritization of the non human races like the Orcs and the Eldar and some of
[00:27:21] Speaker B: the goofier overly emphasize on the humans in a fantasy setting.
[00:27:26] Speaker C: That's a good question.
But I guess it's just easier it's hard to write novels about orcs and I think they're kind of embarrassed by them because they're like. They're orcs in space and they have like cigars and talk with cockney accents.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: Yes, yes, all of that appeals to me.
They're great. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, no, I, That's.
[00:27:48] Speaker C: That's been maybe a little cringy from the Games Works Workshop perspective.
But that aside, this, like the Horus heresy is kind of a. It's look, it looks at the split in the, in the hu. Humanities sort of history between the, like I said, the, the loyalist forces who are loyal to this absolutist authoritarian, like supreme authoritarian emperor and Horus who the, the heresy was that he split with his. These are all the sons of the emperor who started all the legions and Horus is the first among them. But he wind up wound up aligning with Chaos and, And, and all of the, the factions that kind of joined with him much, in very much that Cold War sort of way become more and more corrupted by these, the, the great powers, the, The Chaos Gods.
And so looking at as that story has kind of gotten fleshed out over many, many novels, that exact dynamic kind of continues to pop up. Like you, you sort of see what the. Yes, there's good reasons to, to join a heresy against this emperor, especially if you see where this whole authoritarian thing is going.
However, everybody is also an.
Like every single person involved is bad.
So I don't know. I think that that's been interesting too to just. I mean. Interesting. And like I said, these are audio books that I fall asleep to. I don't have, you know, the greatest grasp of everything that's happened, but I've liked exploring that side of it, that there are interesting points to be made for the, for the, the heresy.
And I don't know, I think that that ties into that kind of. That Cold War I used. Well, the political science term I guess is bipolar in terms of like there being two poles in the Cold War. Right. The USSR and, And NATO. But no, it's, it's just been interesting. There are no heroes. I mean, there are individual characters who wind up acting in heroic ways or very human, like humanity affirming ways. But these are very small stories in the, in the larger tapestry of just. No, there's no side that has a, any kind of claim on like a, you know, the moral high ground. It just doesn't exist.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Yeah. What I'm getting from you is this might strike some viewers as harsh, but I believe everyone in Warhammer 40K should die.
[00:30:25] Speaker C: True. Yes.
And mostly the good news is, mostly they do.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Yes. I love death. Now. I decided.
[00:30:34] Speaker C: There you go. So you're already a 40k fan?
[00:30:36] Speaker A: Yeah. You're getting into it.
Yeah, I. I think what's really funny is that famously, I. I don't know if I'm pronouncing this exactly right, but I think you're supposed to call them the toe.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: I got 10 of them.
[00:30:48] Speaker A: They are like, for the towel or. The towel, maybe. Yeah. I don't know for sure, but you tell me.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: I use a towel to wash my. To dry myself after a shower.
[00:30:58] Speaker A: Say it's Tao. I believe you, because you probably.
[00:31:02] Speaker C: But there's a lot of mispronunciation in Warhammer.
[00:31:04] Speaker A: They're like one of the. The game's newer factions, and they were, like, a little too nice at first, and so they retconned them to make them shittier and more xenophobic.
[00:31:15] Speaker C: Yeah, that tracks that.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: I just. I just think it's incredible that that happened in this universe.
They made a faction that was a little too egalitarian, and they were like, wait a second.
And then they started playing up the case system and stuff. More like, oh, yeah, reminder. They have a case system and actually it's. It's worse than we originally said and. Oh, okay. Geez.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: I think that's. That's generally what the. The. The fluff. The backstory winds up doing as. As that gets built out more. It's like, oh, yeah. These are actually everybody's. Yeah. Terrible. In case you forgot.
Yeah.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: Let's have one good faction. One good faction.
[00:31:58] Speaker C: No, there's. There's again, I think there's a commitment to not having good guys. And I mean, clearly that helps sell the. The. The core battle game. Right? Like, where you're gonna just be sending legions and legions and legions of these people to die.
[00:32:16] Speaker B: Okay. No, I. I kind of get that.
They're the advance wars games. Nintendo.
One of the problems I have with them is everybody's too friendly and happy and Chee.
There's always fights that are friendly, but they're quote, quote, quote, friendly feuds between two commanding officers. But hundreds and hundreds of people die during these friendly disputes. So I could kind of see the angle of everybody sucks. Yeah. Just throw them away.
Yeah, No, I get that.
[00:32:51] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:53] Speaker A: So let's.
Let's take a step over to the voting booth.
I've got a few questions.
[00:33:00] Speaker B: Do I need my passport or has I. Do I need my.
[00:33:04] Speaker C: Or is that for the real id.
[00:33:06] Speaker B: Real id, That'll also work. Okay. Got my. I got my real super real ID and I splashed my ID and the entire ID has a big fake mustache.
[00:33:17] Speaker A: Actually, you need your. You need your Imperium of Man. Space Marine code.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Oh, oh, that's.
That's 0001. Because I'm number one.
[00:33:28] Speaker A: Wow.
That's my Social Security number.
[00:33:31] Speaker C: And in the receptacle here, it will take some of your blood. It will be very painful.
[00:33:35] Speaker B: But listen, I had to. I had to give plasma to make ends meet at one point in my life. So like, whatever. I'm already under capitalism, baby.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: This is how they justify having space Marines right there.
All right, so I've got some questions here that mash up some of these topics that we have mentioned and we'll see how it goes.
First of all, this is kind of a little basic in some ways, but I still think it'll still be pretty fun. I just kind of wanted to ask about some Cold War figures and
[00:34:13] Speaker B: the.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: The factions that they would play in Warhammer 40K. So starting with Harry S. Truman, who do we think President Truman would have played in? 40k? Who would have been his main army?
[00:34:28] Speaker C: Hmm, good question.
I'm going to say I think Truman would have been.
[00:34:37] Speaker A: Yeah, he was. He was. Was kind of plain spoken, kind of ordinary man's man kind of vibe.
[00:34:44] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, he was a real true man.
[00:34:48] Speaker C: That's. They. I mean, it's one of those nominative determination. What? Nominative determinism. That true man. There you go. I think he would have been the Imperial Guard. And they're not called that anymore. It's the Astra Militarum, but the Imperial Guard mostly just regular dudes with tanks and a lot of artillery. They're very much like a. I think kind of the. Like if you played Advanced Squad Leader or like World War II miniatures games, the. The military is kind of like your bridge into 40k. So I'm thinking Truman would have been an astro Militarum guy.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Yeah. My take on Harry S. Truman always was.
I'm not justifying the man's actions, but it is incredibly silly that he was put a vice president with them believing that he would succeed fdr and they didn't tell him anything when he was vice President. Not a freaking thing.
Not a thing.
So suddenly as they expected, FDR dies. And he's like. And they're like, hey, so we've been developing this weapon that could just wipe people out with. Yeah. And should we use it? And it really Like, I'm not justifying his actions. It was bad. But like, why do you do that?
Why would you do. Why would you not let him at least know ahead of time so he has some time to think?
[00:36:14] Speaker C: Just, you know, that now I kind of want to change my answer.
[00:36:20] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Because.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Given the. The way that using the ultimate weapon you have like one of the. The major events of the Horus Heresy, the drop site massacre is on five where the. Where horses forces or excuse me, is found three atrocity instead. Sorry, but they basically used the ultimate weapon and completely annihilated Was used like a viral bomb that just eats every. Every organic thing on the planet's surface. And then I think there's a. After that, like the whole globe is consumed by fire.
So maybe. Yeah, maybe the traitor legions.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, I want to make it clear I am not in any way justifying like there's some Americans that justify the nukes. No, I am not justifying at all. That was an atrocious choice.
But why would you not tell him? So he would have some time to chew it over ahead of time. Why would you.
That was just also poorly handled.
Just like America. Just like.
Right.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Well.
[00:37:31] Speaker C: And you know, the. I. I think that this. Yeah. This all works out because as you know, in the horror a lot of what happens in the heresy is based on missing or bad information.
[00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:44] Speaker C: So.
Yeah, this works. Yeah. Trader Legions. Harry has Truman. Trader Legions. I'm not sure which one. I have to think about that a little bit.
Who are the dumbest ones?
World leaders, maybe?
[00:37:57] Speaker A: What about Eisenhower, the guy who came in after Truman?
[00:38:01] Speaker B: You know, thanks to Animaniacs, every time I hear Eisenhower, I think, Eisenhower, who's got the power?
[00:38:10] Speaker C: Let's see. I like that little.
Yeah, that could have been. That would have maybe a been a better jingle. I like.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: Whoa.
[00:38:19] Speaker B: I didn't know Eisenhower played Smash Brothers.
[00:38:23] Speaker A: Eisenhower was considered.
I mean there's. He had a mixed track record on this, to be clear, in some ways, but he was considered kind of a peace wager.
He did a lot during his part of the Cold War to try to keep things from turning hot.
He also founded NASA, so that's true.
[00:38:45] Speaker B: Whoa.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: That seems like something, right?
[00:38:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's really out of this world.
[00:38:50] Speaker A: You need to. You need to go to the moon and stay there.
[00:38:56] Speaker B: I might die. Is that a problem?
[00:39:00] Speaker A: Maybe for some people.
[00:39:06] Speaker C: I'm thinking Eisenhower with.
Between getting his involvement as a general in like Philippines and Korea.
I'm gonna go with Alpha Legion, I think. Oh, another chaos space Marine Legion that was originally founded to.
As part of the great crusade to. Again, to kind of expand humanity's influence out across the cosmos.
Yeah, I think. I think Alpha Legion would be good for you.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: Say you're an Alpha Legion. I'm a Sigma Legion.
[00:39:46] Speaker C: Sigma Terror Legion.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:39:49] Speaker C: I mean, all of these guys are Chads, right?
Just armies of Chads that are fighting each other. And it's a different type. The different. The different types of that.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: And add more hearts and chins to you until you're gigachad energy.
[00:40:05] Speaker C: That's.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: You know what?
[00:40:05] Speaker C: They haven't addressed that, but I feel like. Yeah, you get like this massive jaw with the cleft chin.
[00:40:11] Speaker A: Never seen a space Marine with a bad. With a bad jawline or a good hairline.
[00:40:20] Speaker C: It's true.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: I'm inventing a new kind of Marine with a terrible jawline with the best hairline.
[00:40:27] Speaker C: You get those. You get those bolts in your head instead of solid hairline.
[00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah.
What about. What about old Joseph Stalin?
[00:40:39] Speaker C: Joseph Stalin.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: Who would he be fielding in 40k?
[00:40:44] Speaker C: Okay, so now I think we're going back to the astro militar. I'm going to stick them with Stalin because, like, there's a couple things in the. In the. Like the Imperial Guard forces that are explicitly drawn kind of caricatures of the Red Army. Right. Like the commissars who shoot you for deserting.
[00:41:04] Speaker A: So.
[00:41:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I'd say Stalin's astronaut.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: I'm impressed by how quickly you answered that. I expected you to be stolen.
[00:41:13] Speaker C: You know, maybe I should have thematically.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Yes.
Kennedy, are you killing me with your mind right now?
[00:41:20] Speaker A: I'm trying so hard. I. I keep. I keep asking the Death Note to appear
[00:41:28] Speaker C: so mad.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: What about Fidel Castro?
[00:41:34] Speaker C: Fidel Castro.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: I feel like he would. He would pick an interesting something. Something unusual, maybe.
[00:41:40] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe.
You know, you mentioned the Tau earlier. I think that might be a good one.
Good health care.
[00:41:47] Speaker A: They do have health care.
[00:41:49] Speaker C: Kind of stealthy.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I think the most egalitarian 40k. Yeah, the most.
[00:41:56] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. This all.
Yeah, they have health care.
[00:42:00] Speaker C: 100.
[00:42:01] Speaker A: Yeah, no, they get. Yeah, they get health care.
I'm not sure if any other 40k faction has health care for sure.
[00:42:08] Speaker C: I mean, for a given value of health care, yes, but not necessarily the kind that you want.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Yeah, if you use space Marines, you get quote, unquote, health care.
[00:42:20] Speaker C: Health care.
I don't know that it's. I don't think you can decline coverage.
[00:42:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think you get it.
[00:42:29] Speaker B: Sounds more like.
[00:42:31] Speaker A: Like that.
[00:42:31] Speaker B: It sounds more like health doesn't care.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: Oh, actually, you know what? You know what?
We up.
[00:42:38] Speaker B: We up.
[00:42:38] Speaker A: We're wrong.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: Okay?
[00:42:40] Speaker A: The Necrons probably have the most incredible health coverage.
[00:42:43] Speaker C: That's true. That's true.
[00:42:45] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I. I don't even have time.
That's what I figured. That's what I figured.
[00:42:52] Speaker A: You know, most mo. Most people are impressed by a health care plan that goes through your whole
[00:42:58] Speaker B: natural life, but one that goes live.
[00:43:01] Speaker A: Yeah. What about. What about a healthcare plan that keeps you alive after you die?
[00:43:06] Speaker B: What if. When I die, I just want to be in peace? Is that an option?
[00:43:10] Speaker C: No, sorry, not. Not available. That's. That's not part of the. Yeah, you can't get that in the. It's not in bronze or silver. None of the. None of the plans on the marketplace offer that.
[00:43:23] Speaker A: So.
[00:43:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Anyway, health doesn't care. Health doesn't care.
[00:43:29] Speaker A: All right. My. My spiciest one.
Who would Pope John Paul ii play in 40k?
He was.
[00:43:40] Speaker C: He was. He was very important Cold War figure.
Man, this is going to be hard to find a match now. Religious figure. I. I would say maybe start looking in the.
Gosh. What. What would this. The Adeptus Mechanicus, I think, you know, they're the ones that believe in machine spirits and the Omnisiah, I don't know, they. They. They have kind of a working relationship with the Imperium, but don't really sign on a hundred percent with the.
The whole Emperor. The God Emperor thing.
So I think I'd start working like I'd start looking that. That it would be a Mechanicus guy. But that. That. That deserves some more thought, though. I don't know.
[00:44:31] Speaker A: My. My. My heart kind. I like Mechanicus. I. You made a strong case and I am considering it strongly now, but my heart kind of says Eldari.
[00:44:42] Speaker C: Yeah, Yeah, I can see that too.
[00:44:45] Speaker A: I mean, you get almost like costumes.
[00:44:48] Speaker C: True.
[00:44:49] Speaker A: I think that alone just the. The. The regal ness of the garb, so many flowing robes, is very Vatican coded.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: I mean. Yeah, that's a lot of.40k is pretty Vatican coded.
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Hey, speaking of Vatican coded, somebody just entered the voting booth. Hello, Brandon Buchanan.
Did you know that you can vote
[00:45:12] Speaker A: late and it still counts?
[00:45:13] Speaker C: Don't let the President tell you.
[00:45:15] Speaker B: Get in line. Stay in line.
[00:45:18] Speaker A: Get in line.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: Do not let them continue voting.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: All right.
How many. You know, so Warhammer 40K is famous for long rounds of interaction.
You have to roll the dice a whole bunch of times just to see if you shot a guy once.
[00:45:36] Speaker C: Lot of Dice, a lot of them. Like, you know, 20 at a time.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Okay. I'm the numbers guy and my bit is numbers. But that's fucked up. That's way too many fucking.
That's fucked up.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: It's part of the pleasure of the game, I guess, for some people. But no, that's too many numbers. So I wanted to ask about a few real world. A couple of real world situations.
And I want to know how many dice would you have to roll to. To accomplish these things using 40k metrics? So the division of Korea post World War II, how many dice do you have to roll for establishing the 38th parallel?
[00:46:27] Speaker C: Let's get the calculator out here.
The. Boy, oh boy, I'm scared to answer this question. I feel like there's.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: There's a wrong answer.
[00:46:41] Speaker B: I'm just gonna say. I'm just gonna say the wrong answer. You only have to throw one dice.
Okay.
What the.
[00:46:50] Speaker C: What would. What would that be?
[00:46:52] Speaker A: I mean, I think it's gonna be a lot.
[00:46:55] Speaker C: It's gonna be a lot. Let's say 20 per side. And.
[00:47:00] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:47:00] Speaker A: Actually is. Actually I. That's.
That's a little. That. That's somewhat more generous than I was expecting, but that's still okay.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: Is it possible for you to briefly explain why to shoot a guy you have to toss 20 die?
[00:47:16] Speaker C: Yeah, well, because. Okay. Yeah, briefly. It's because, like, that's how many models you have in a year. Like your.
[00:47:23] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: Your squad is gonna have. Well, it's not going to be 20. It's going to be more.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:26] Speaker C: You know, seven or 12 or something like that. You ro.
Okay. Yeah.
And then like, you look at the. The. The dice to see if they've scored a hit. And then, you know, the. The unit you're shooting at gets to roll for each model in their.
In their unit and see if it wounds, I think is how that works.
And Kennedy, correct me if I'm wrong, you've played this more than I have. So that's roughly how it works, though. But yeah, it's just. It depends on how many models.
[00:47:57] Speaker A: Sometimes there can be some extra stuff, like a whole extra morale step or something. But.
[00:48:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the dice rolls for Korea would be the negotiation process, right?
[00:48:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, true. So maybe you're looking at maybe like three rounds and it's primarks. So, like, they're only like. Like, maybe it's just. How would this work?
Be interesting? I don't. There's just not much negotiation involved that you're usually firing at each other. So, like Once that stops, I'm not sure how we. How we'd handle this.
[00:48:30] Speaker A: What if there was negotiation in Warhammer 40K? That should be in the 11th edition.
[00:48:35] Speaker C: What if we could talk to these
[00:48:37] Speaker B: creatures, but we could talk our feelings out?
[00:48:43] Speaker A: One time, when I was very young, I was on.
I was. I was on mushrooms. I'll just say it. Whatever is 30 years ago almost, and I was playing Grand Theft Auto, and I had, like, accidentally, like, punched a guy on the street, and he was chasing me around, and I was like, where's the apologize button? You know, there's no I'm sorry button in Grand Theft Auto. There's no I'm sorry role in Warhammer for 40k.
You can't suddenly be like, wait, let's. Let's decide if. Let's decide if we can be friends.
[00:49:26] Speaker C: Yeah, my bad. There should be a button. Rockstar's control schemes are bizarre enough that there's room, right? Like, they could figure out, like, oh, yeah, A plus, right. Bumper is.
Whoops, sorry, buddy.
Yeah, that happened to me so many times in Red Dead Redemption too, by the way. Accidentally just roll up on somebody and shoot them instead of say, hey, that. That's awkward.
[00:49:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:51] Speaker C: Drimdark means never. That is. That's. That's what Grimdark's all about.
[00:49:56] Speaker B: Good news, Kennedy. I'm checking the laws, and the statute of limitations on you taking those mushrooms has long since passed.
[00:50:04] Speaker A: Also, they're sort of legal in the state that I live, so come at me. But I. I've got how many years?
[00:50:11] Speaker B: It depends. I'm seeing three depending on the state. I'm seeing three to six.
[00:50:16] Speaker A: Okay. This was when I was in high size.
[00:50:18] Speaker B: Okay.
2032.
[00:50:21] Speaker C: I've got a banger podcast for you guys.
I gotta say, too. Like, any story that starts off, I was on mushrooms is gonna be pretty good.
[00:50:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there's mushroom for entertainment.
[00:50:37] Speaker C: There is.
[00:50:38] Speaker B: Kennedy, are you picking up the phone to hire an assassin?
[00:50:43] Speaker A: Did you hear those series of clicks? Anyway, okay, so what about.
What about.
Wait, did we get. Did we reach a consensus here? Like, three rounds, 20 dice per round? Is that kind of working?
[00:50:56] Speaker C: I was gonna cut it down to, like, three. Like. Like three rounds of maybe. Like, three.
[00:51:02] Speaker A: Oh, how about that? All right, all right.
[00:51:05] Speaker C: Maybe this is getting pretty abstract.
[00:51:09] Speaker A: What about. What about how many dice does Truman have to roll when demanding Russia leave Iran?
[00:51:15] Speaker B: Oh,
[00:51:18] Speaker C: does he have any. Yeah. What?
Does he get any? Like, does he have a role on this? Like, does he have advantage?
[00:51:24] Speaker A: Is this the Auto success for some Reason.
[00:51:29] Speaker C: Yeah, man.
So, boy, oh boy.
These are. This is. This is a very difficult actualize. Like, I'm trying to figure out, like, what would the dice be, right. What would we be representing in. In this situation?
[00:51:44] Speaker A: I just. I just wonder. I actually feel like this one might come down to just a single die.
[00:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. If it's one demand.
The one demand.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: And then if it doesn't. If it doesn't work from there, I mean, then we're gonna have many rounds
[00:51:59] Speaker C: of dice, all kinds of dudes and checks. Yeah, I think that works.
Yeah, it's like the, like one of the conditions that you set up before the game starts, right? Like where you're rolling for, like to see if there's like a storm, if there's extra, you know, objectives or something like that. Like.
[00:52:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:52:20] Speaker C: Prior to the game starting, you can roll to see if there's like random mutators. I think so maybe. Yeah, we'll treat it like that.
[00:52:27] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I played. I. I used to play a different miniatures game a lot more that had a tournament structure kind of like that.
[00:52:34] Speaker C: Cool.
[00:52:35] Speaker A: Fun. I won't shout it out, though. No shout outs for me.
[00:52:41] Speaker B: Is it the PewDiePie game?
I don't think that's real, but I'm never going to fact check. That's a really tabletop game.
[00:52:51] Speaker A: It's. That was a spin off of the Sonic tabletop franchise. It's also a game where you throw the models.
[00:52:58] Speaker C: I like. I think that's a pretty good concept for you. Just whip the models as can at the.
[00:53:05] Speaker B: I could see some design flaws. I can see some design flaws.
[00:53:09] Speaker A: My dad used to play this board game when he was a kid. And I used to think he was making it up for a long time because it sounded kind of absurd. But then eventually I did find it. I. Fortunately, I couldn't tell you the name of it off top of my head.
But he would always describe this board game from when he was a kid. He's like, yeah, you'd like, roll these dice and you move these pirate ships around. But also you'd shoot real rubber bands at your opponent's pirate ships. I was like, what the. That sounds crazy and awesome.
I think, where's that energy?
[00:53:37] Speaker C: You know what? One of the first.
And maybe you know this. But like, I think it's one of my favorite little bits of trivia. Is that one of the, like, the first, like, books of modern, like, what we think of war games, War gaming as now one of the first Books of Rules was created by H.G. wells, and he would use like tin soldiers.
And basically his entire living room would set up with, you know, cavalry charges and all these different tin soldiers set up all over the place. And there were rules, you know, for handling, you know, rifle volleys and melee and all that kind of stuff. But for cannons, you had like a literal spring loaded cannon that you would actually fire at your opponents. It seems like H.G. wells seems like he would have been a really hard guy to like have in the house as like if you were like his roommates or spouse or something like that. It just seems like he would be a huge pain in the ass because he was super serious about this. And, and again, it would take over the entire, you know, front room of his, of his place. Anyway, love that.
[00:54:43] Speaker A: I mean, I do. I simultaneously am like, oh, my God, how annoying. And also like, how do I get invited over?
[00:54:50] Speaker C: Exactly. That's where I'm at. 100. Yeah. What an annoying dude. 100 years ago.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I, I, the next time somebody asked me if you could go back in time, what we you do, I'm gonna say, I'm, I would go back in time to play H.G. wells Insane Miniatures Game.
[00:55:07] Speaker C: Me, H.G. wells, Waterloo. That's what we're doing. Yep.
[00:55:12] Speaker A: Waterloo. Oh, now I've got to think about. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be stewing on. I'm gonna be like, oh, what, what battle would I do with. Well, listen, why'd you put that in my head?
[00:55:23] Speaker B: Listen, listen. All I have to say is if a loo is a toilet, isn't every loo a Waterloo?
Bam.
[00:55:32] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:55:33] Speaker C: Not in parts of Northern Europe.
[00:55:35] Speaker B: Okay, fine, Andrew.
[00:55:37] Speaker C: I don't know if I played and I don't know if I told you.
[00:55:40] Speaker B: Okay, fine. I'm uncultured. I need to explore the world more.
[00:55:44] Speaker A: I'd be like, I think I'd be, I'd be going back in time and I'd be like, H.G. wells, I gotta tell you about this thing called the nuclear submarine.
[00:55:53] Speaker C: You know how he would lose his mind.
[00:55:59] Speaker A: I gotta tell you about this book called the Hunt for Red October. You're gonna lose it.
[00:56:06] Speaker C: H.G. wells, he would just never would have had a career like modern era, because he would have just like been reading Tom Clancy books.
[00:56:14] Speaker A: He just would have been such a Tom Clancy fan.
Oh, it's amazing.
[00:56:23] Speaker C: Just getting around with his like fake USS Indianapolis hat on and aviator sunglasses. Not writing any great sci fi at all.
[00:56:32] Speaker A: Still would have. He still would have. Still would have accumulated the same amount of miniatures somehow.
[00:56:37] Speaker C: 100. Yeah, yeah.
[00:56:40] Speaker A: Because that. That's not really based on your income. That's a willpower thing.
[00:56:45] Speaker C: Different role.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: It's part of the cards.
[00:56:50] Speaker A: All right.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: What?
[00:56:51] Speaker A: One more dice rolling question. How many dice to get to the moon?
[00:56:56] Speaker C: How many dice to get to the moon?
[00:56:58] Speaker B: 10,000. 10. Just hundreds of thousands.
[00:57:02] Speaker A: I don't know. The computers they were using were pretty simple.
[00:57:05] Speaker C: They were hundreds of thousand.
[00:57:06] Speaker A: Might be an exaggeration.
[00:57:08] Speaker C: No, but like they had to do all. All of that.
This is like the most 40k thing because, like they had very basic computers to pull this off and had to write.
You've seen the stack of, you know, of code that they had. Next to one of the women who was responsible for the program.
This feels like the ultimate 40K type of enterprise. But I agree. Yeah. Tens of thousands of dice to make that work. It's got to be up there like 10 to some power. Like it's got to be an exponent involved.
[00:57:41] Speaker A: I still think it's. It is. It is some parsable number, though, because those computers.
[00:57:46] Speaker C: True, true. Yeah. Maybe, just maybe. Only one dice, you just said.
[00:57:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I was about to take one dice roll at the start of the adventure. Do I already have space travel?
[00:57:56] Speaker A: You know what?
We're simplifying everything down to what? Maybe this is the problem with Warhammer 40k. They never listen to us.
[00:58:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
Okay.
[00:58:06] Speaker C: Everything is either one dice or all dice that have ever existed and ever will
[00:58:13] Speaker B: listen. That's at least five dice.
[00:58:16] Speaker C: One. I keep saying one dice too. I'm annoyed with myself.
[00:58:20] Speaker B: The one dice. The one dice is real fun. Statistics. Fact. Data is plural and the singular is datum. It is very common for people to improperly refer to data as singular.
[00:58:37] Speaker C: As a singular thing. Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's one of the ways that I annoy myself. Bring that.
[00:58:44] Speaker B: That's an interesting data point.
[00:58:46] Speaker A: Which. Which of the 40k factions would be in NATO?
[00:58:51] Speaker C: The ultramarines for sure.
I would say. Who else would be in NATO? 100 in NATO.
I would say Black Legion, maybe. So I think you could be. I mean, again, you know, doesn't have to cut across like you could have. I think you could put any number of. Of factions potentially in NATO.
[00:59:13] Speaker A: Well, but some are not. I mean, the Tyranids aren't joining NATO.
[00:59:16] Speaker C: The Tyranids aren't joining NATO. I don't know that you're doing like, could. Could orcs work in NATO?
[00:59:22] Speaker A: I don't think the orcs are joining.
[00:59:23] Speaker C: I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think that really.
[00:59:26] Speaker A: I don't think the orcs would ever agree to anything that could be described as non proliferation.
[00:59:32] Speaker C: That's a good point. Yeah. That's kind of their whole thing, like the entire animating principle.
Ultramarines for sure. They're.
Everybody hates them. They're boring and kind of boy scouty.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:59:49] Speaker C: I think that's at least like NATO's self image. Right. They're also blue, which I think works with the.
[00:59:56] Speaker B: They're blue for a wonderful reason.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: I think the, the, the, the. The tau are definitely in because they're like the Nordic socialist vibe and like high tech.
[01:00:07] Speaker C: I think that works too. Like the high tech nature of the towel.
[01:00:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:11] Speaker C: So that's. Those are some good ones. Oh, also this is a good chance I. One of the like, for people who don't really know anything about 40k, the ultramarines kind of illustrate one of my favorite things about it. And it's like how dumb the lore gets. Like consciously so dumb.
Like ultramarine, first off, is a color. It's blue.
But that's not why the ultramarines are called the ultramarines. Also, it's not because they're marines that are super great at being.
[01:00:42] Speaker B: What the. What is.
[01:00:44] Speaker C: The reason they're called ultramarines is because they're from a place in space called Ultramar. Not because they're blue. It's not because they're supermarines. It's because we're 100% made up a place in space called Ultramar for being. As a way to get around the fact that we just called them the blue Marines.
[01:01:05] Speaker B: This is my punishment. This is karma.
This is the gods, the God. She has said all those bad puns. You know what? I'm going to get you back for them.
[01:01:17] Speaker A: It's so good.
[01:01:21] Speaker C: Anyway, but that's like how that. Like that, like that building that back story, all that lore.
[01:01:30] Speaker B: So here's the thing. The reason why I'm called Andrew is because I come from a planet called Andrew. Tonia.
[01:01:38] Speaker C: Exactly.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: That's why I'm called Andrew.
[01:01:41] Speaker C: Right. Like we're gonna. We're gonna retcon this and we're gonna retcon this in the stupidest way possible to make you embarrassed every time you bring it up. I love that. It's so good.
[01:01:52] Speaker A: They love. They do, they do. Be aggressively retconning their lore.
[01:01:56] Speaker B: I mean, after.
[01:01:58] Speaker A: You know, I actually want to say this is. I'm not trying to get too far into the weeds here, but I do want to say that I think there's something admirable about the. The way that Games Workshop unafraid to retcon anything. A lot of people, they create something and they're like, oh, no. Now I have to be beholden to every decision I ever made in the past.
Workshop is like you. We change the names of all the time. Get used to it. Suck it.
[01:02:26] Speaker C: Yeah. And don't have more respect for this property than, you know, like. I think that's a great approach.
[01:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's fine.
[01:02:35] Speaker B: I think so.
[01:02:36] Speaker C: In conclusion, Ultramarines, NATO.
[01:02:38] Speaker A: Okay, I want that. I think this is. I think a lot of these we can, you know, we can just kind of skip over. But here's the one that I was most on the fence about. Are the Necrons in NATO?
[01:02:49] Speaker C: Are the Necrons in NATO?
[01:02:51] Speaker A: I'm really confused about that one, man.
[01:02:57] Speaker B: They do have insurance.
[01:02:59] Speaker C: That's true. They're now the. The thing is, again, very high tech. You know, they shed their original organic forms.
[01:03:10] Speaker A: I think they would be okay with adopting the euro.
[01:03:12] Speaker C: I think that.
[01:03:14] Speaker B: That has nothing to do with NATO.
[01:03:16] Speaker C: Would. Would they?
[01:03:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it has a lot to do with NATO.
[01:03:19] Speaker B: European Union. That's the European Union.
[01:03:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. The European Union and NATO. Nothing. No relationship.
[01:03:27] Speaker B: It's the Americas in the Europes. It's the United States in the Europes.
[01:03:35] Speaker A: I'm just saying. I think. I think in order to join NATO, they probably also have to adopt the euro along the way. I think that would be a part of the. Like, look at how. Look at the hoops we've made other nations jump through that. You don't just get to raise your hand and join NATO. You have to start doing NATO things.
[01:03:53] Speaker B: Well, wait, I just looked at my wallet, and you're right. I don't have American dollar bills. I have a bunch of euros. You're right, Kennedy. You need to. To join NATO, you have to have euro. My bad.
[01:04:03] Speaker A: I'm not saying it's the only way. I'm just saying I think the Necrons have to adopt the euro. I think it's part of their indoc. I think it's a part of their induction.
[01:04:10] Speaker C: But the thing, I guess with NATO, like, you have to ask, like, Necrons willingly ally against some, you know, who. Whatever forces, I guess kind of work as the Comintern or Soviet Union here. But. And I don't know, I. I feel like they're not joiners, really.
This is a tough one. You're right. This. I'm on the fence about this, too.
I think there's. There's arguments you could make for, like, they're.
[01:04:38] Speaker B: I love making arguments.
[01:04:40] Speaker C: That's the. I guess that's the point here.
Yeah. I just have a hard time thinking Necron, so that would make it tough. Like, would they join the common defense of, you know.
[01:04:53] Speaker A: We lost that comment. Yeah, cut out. Will you repeat that one?
[01:04:58] Speaker C: Can you hear me now?
[01:04:59] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:04:59] Speaker C: Oh, okay. Well, all I was saying was I just have a hard time the. The Necrons as, like, a lot. Allying with anybody for any reason, like, joining as, like, a common defense treaty. It's. It's a weird thing to think of.
[01:05:15] Speaker A: You're right.
[01:05:15] Speaker C: I mean, not. Not that that sets them apart from very many other factions in 40K, but it's. Yeah.
[01:05:22] Speaker A: No, you've made a strong argument here.
[01:05:25] Speaker C: Iffy, I would say.
[01:05:27] Speaker A: Did you seem like they would struggle with the concept of an alliance?
[01:05:32] Speaker C: Because I think they just want to munch everybody up and use the organic matter as fuel, mostly.
[01:05:37] Speaker A: I've got a couple of questions left.
Here's two that kind of go together. Well, we'll. We'll do them one at a time, but they'll come back to back. They'll make sense together.
Which.
Which Cold War politician would have the best paintable figurine?
[01:05:53] Speaker C: Ooh. Which would be the best. Yeah. Couple options here.
First instinct, I've got to say is. Is Joe Stalin.
[01:06:02] Speaker A: He. That mustache would be fun to paint.
[01:06:04] Speaker C: That's what I got.
[01:06:05] Speaker B: That would be a fantastic. To paint. Must. Yeah.
[01:06:07] Speaker C: You could like a big, flowing trench jacket, a trench coat, you know, kind of with the wind catching it, maybe standing on top of a T34 turret or something. I mean, there's options. I think that would be pretty good.
[01:06:20] Speaker B: Not your paintable figurine. Our paintable figurine.
[01:06:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
[01:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:27] Speaker A: You can imagine a.
You know, just a lot of iconic poses.
Pretty strong.
Okay, now, this is slightly different. Which Cold War politicians. Miniature would be the most overpriced on the aftermarket after it's no longer available.
[01:06:45] Speaker B: That we want somebody who wouldn't have sold that well at the time, but
[01:06:49] Speaker C: afterwards, overpriced in the aftermarket.
Go with. Maybe.
I don't want to go all Soviet leaders, but I'm thinking maybe who you cut out. Oh, sorry. I was thinking Nikita Khrushchev.
[01:07:05] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I can see Khrushchev rising in value after.
[01:07:10] Speaker C: Like, I don't think he would have gotten picked a whole lot in the first run, but then, you know.
[01:07:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:07:16] Speaker A: My pocket pick for this was Kim Il Sung. I feel like they wouldn't produce a bunch of those.
And then years later, people be like, I got to have that, got to have that. Kim Il Sung.
[01:07:27] Speaker C: I like that.
Yeah.
[01:07:33] Speaker A: All right, I've got one last question for us here in the voting booth.
[01:07:37] Speaker B: I'm scared because you just asked what you originally told us was going to be the last question when we were preparing this episode. So I'm scared.
[01:07:46] Speaker A: The animated young adult sitcom hey Arnold featured that explained the Vietnam War, the children.
It was relatively succinct, not necessarily perfect,
[01:08:06] Speaker B: but it was also a Christmas episode.
[01:08:08] Speaker A: A fairly sincere attempt to distill a pretty complex topic in a way that a young person could digest.
Could a single hey Arnold episode explain the Horus Heresy
[01:08:27] Speaker C: that I, I.
Maybe not in a brief way, but yes, I would like to see the hey Arnold version of the Horus Heresy. Actually, if you could do that in maybe a two and a half hour feature film, I think that would be the, the ideal treatment.
Yeah, let's bring it on.
Hey Arnold. Horus Heresy.
[01:08:54] Speaker A: Two and a half hours.
Hey Arnold could knock this out.
[01:08:59] Speaker C: I, I think you could, you could do it in two and a half hours.
If they could do, if they can do the Vietnam War.
[01:09:05] Speaker A: Do you think, do you think if Taika Waititi is the director, they can cut it down to an hour and 50 minutes worth a shot.
[01:09:12] Speaker C: Let's do it.
[01:09:17] Speaker A: We got to get it under two hours for, for, for distribution reasons.
[01:09:22] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[01:09:26] Speaker A: So I'm just trying to pick a heavy hitter director that could maybe handle a project.
[01:09:31] Speaker B: Here's the thing. My condition is this is also has to be either a Christmas episode or a Christmas movie. Okay. This also has to be Christmas theme.
[01:09:40] Speaker C: Sure.
[01:09:40] Speaker B: That's my condition.
[01:09:42] Speaker C: The, the, the hey Arnold Horus Heresy Christmas special.
[01:09:46] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:09:47] Speaker C: Excuse me. Hey, Arnold Horus Heresy Spectacular.
[01:09:50] Speaker A: All right, well, if it's a Christmas special, maybe we can do it as like a three part, 50 minutes a piece.
[01:09:56] Speaker B: Okay.
[01:09:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Coming to Pluto TV in 2027.
[01:10:01] Speaker A: Also. Also coming to MUBI.
[01:10:03] Speaker B: Also coming to Plumberdoo.
[01:10:07] Speaker C: It's on Gloop, dude. It's on.
[01:10:09] Speaker B: It's on Schlip.
Oh God, I feel so dirty. If I offended anybody saying that, I'm sorry, but that one actually sounded like it would a slur. I apologize.
[01:10:23] Speaker A: It's on Quibi.
[01:10:24] Speaker B: I'm not continuing to play this game.
[01:10:27] Speaker A: We broke it. We broke it into 150 tiny bites. Also it's on Quippy.
[01:10:36] Speaker C: Watch podcast ads in between. Yeah, 15 minutes of podcast ads between segments.
[01:10:45] Speaker A: Do you think that there's a general.
Do you think there's a different children's animated property that could do a better job than hey, Arnold. Hey, Arnold tackled some pretty heavy topics.
[01:10:56] Speaker C: I, again, just. This is the first thing that came to my mind, but home movies. Oh, just have the coach sit down with Brandon and explain the thing. Just tell, tell. Like the, the coach just taking Brendan aside and explaining the, the broadsword.
[01:11:13] Speaker B: Okay, hear me out. Hear me out.
The Explorer episode of the Horus Heresy.
[01:11:21] Speaker C: Yeah, that. Man, that would, That's. That actually kind of bums me out a lot.
Like, Dora the Explorer is about, you know, being curious about the world, having a nice, you know, sense of wonder and joy.
[01:11:40] Speaker A: Okay. But it is also about map nerds.
[01:11:43] Speaker C: That's true.
[01:11:44] Speaker A: I think that's the only overlap I could come up with.
You're allowed to snipe in 40K. That's.
[01:11:54] Speaker C: Oh, that's. Yeah. Encouraged.
[01:11:56] Speaker B: Niper, go sniping. Snipe. Oh, Swiper. I was saying the wrong word. His name is Swiper. He's not.
[01:12:02] Speaker A: I was wondering what was going on.
I thought it was just a really bad bit. I can't tell with you.
[01:12:09] Speaker B: Listen, fair.
[01:12:12] Speaker A: Listen rude, but fair.
[01:12:15] Speaker B: Weird.
[01:12:16] Speaker A: We're done voting.
[01:12:19] Speaker C: Who wins?
[01:12:21] Speaker A: No.
[01:12:22] Speaker B: No one.
[01:12:23] Speaker C: Hey, that's the most 40k ending that could possibly. Yeah, no one wins. No one's happy.
[01:12:30] Speaker B: Can I, Can I win just this
[01:12:32] Speaker A: once, you know, so every once in a while. Every once in a while.
[01:12:37] Speaker B: Can I win this time?
[01:12:39] Speaker A: Not this time. No. No. You were very bad this episode. You were very poorly behaved. I think you know that, Ian, you were not poorly behaved. You were a mild mannered, delightful, fun guest.
[01:12:53] Speaker C: Well, this was, this was a fun time. Thank you both.
[01:12:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's been great to have you here.
Do you have anything you want to say to the people out there?
[01:13:04] Speaker C: Mostly just, I'm sorry, to anybody, things about Warhammer 40K, I, I again, I, I've picked up on vibes and I like them and I kind of ran on that.
[01:13:14] Speaker A: No.
[01:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah. And if you have been scared of it, it's, I don't know, worth poking, not taking too seriously and, and checking out, I guess that's all.
[01:13:24] Speaker A: And if you don't think, take things too seriously, but you still like to have an interesting or fun or witty thought pop into your head once in a while. What if it was one of our thoughts because you listen to, listened to our podcast and you told your friends about it and you gave it five stars, so.
[01:13:39] Speaker B: And you wanted to hurt your friends because you're they. You didn't warn them about me.
With friends like these, who needs enemies?
[01:13:49] Speaker A: I'm trying to get people to recommend the show to other people. You're blowing.
[01:13:54] Speaker B: I'm incredibly funny. I'm incredibly funny.
I'm insanely funny.
[01:14:00] Speaker A: As always.
[01:14:01] Speaker C: Five stars.
[01:14:02] Speaker A: This is the most important election of our lives.
And if you're in line, stay in line.
[01:14:08] Speaker B: If you're in line, use your superpowers to get in more lines at the same time.
Bye. Three ever.
